GDI Engines Worth It?

[notfast]

I want to point out my F250 diesel has direct injection, turbo feeds to Intake valves, other than the fuel, not much different aspects from any GDI principles.

DI diesels can still get carbon on the intake valves or elsewhere, it's just not as prevalent. Some say it's because of EGR or CCV systems, but I suspect it's because gasoline engines run with the intake under vacuum most of the time, whereas diesel engines do not. Hence why diesel vehicles either have hydroboost brakes or a vacuum pump.

I drove like I stole it for 70,000 miles.

I genuinely think the good ole Italian tune-up is a great way to keep a car running well, regardless of injection system, but more so with GDI. My racing teammate's daily is a Mazda with Skyactiv (GDI). Over 100,000 miles of balls-to-the-wall driving and the intake valves look not much worse than an MPFI vehicle of the same vintage.

If I need to move vehicles around but otherwise have nowhere else to go, I'll go for repositioning drives to the next city over. There's an onramp that is almost half a mile of 8% uphill grade. You start from a dead stop at the bottom, and you bet I make sure all the horsepower I paid for is awake!

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[Guv]

Some manufacturers use their cam phasers to create a momentary overlap condition so some fuel can make it back past the intake valve. Not sure if this ever caught on industry wide but obviously dual injection is the best solution, it also has light load benefits too.

 

[RedRider]

All these "experts" claiming that there is a huge carbon buildup on the intake valves at 30k have obviously never taken a look at what the cam phaser does to reduce the effective compression under load. They either do not run top-tier fuel, run crummy oil getting past very worn rings, or are just plain full of crap. I see them posting pics and video teardowns of full-on race engines installed in the Focus RS with fuel/air tricks to keep the turbo maxed-out between gears and without the newer timing tricks, but not any pics of 2016-up vehicles that were driven normally.
The cam phasing advances the intake by as much as 50 degrees, causing huge amounts of fuel/air mix to push back into the intake and lowering the effective compression ratio when under load. Aside from preventing the lower grade fuel from knocking in a higher-compression engine, the backwash of PEA in top-tier fuels cleans the valve back surface pretty well. There are many examples of these engines going well over 400k miles in taxi duty, meeting emission standards and still running well.
I should note that this backwash does not work as well if you run the engine at redline all the time or run higher octane fuel, as the intake timing does not need to back off very much in those conditions. So, the so-called Italian tuneup does not do the job.
Just ignore these wannabe experts, use the lowest octane top-tier fuel and the recommended spec for the low volatility oil, and drive it normally. It will not carbon up.

 

[Tim d]

Well, I have a new 2023 XLT. And probably intake valves pretty shiny now. Been reading about these GDI engines, and how affects engines, particularly the valves. I was a mechanic in my younger days, did lots of valves jobs. Even back then with carburetors those valves would get dirty, mostly the exhaust valves, covered with carbon. Intakes would have some junk on them too.

So the modern GDI/turbocharges engines would tend to see backsides of intakes get really dirty. Not a warm fuzzy feeding for me.

some say change your oil often with Ford spec good oil, drive easy, not tow hard, nor do hills, where the turbo will put more boost., this might minimize buildups on the intake valves.

The more I do research here and elsewhere, I am beginning to think if I did right thing, buying a Maverick. The dealer I brought the truck from has a Warranty Forever program on drivetrains. But these warranty programs have hic cups clauses in them. I may have to seriously consider the FordProtect plan. I had that on my F250 truck, given the complexity of these vehicles. The saving grace may be I’m retired, don’t travel as much these days, vehicle parked in driveway. I had it fir 3 weeks so far, only 344 miles on odometer so far.

however, I want to point out my F250 diesel has direct injection, turbo feeds to Intake valves, other than the fuel, not much different aspects from any GDI principles.

Time will tell. When I bought my 23 ecoboost the dealer tried to sell me extended service plans,I shut him down right away.i said if this Ford is as good as my last couple dodges, it's not needed! My 14 year old ram has been trouble free,hoping to get another 5-6 years out of it.i keep my vehicles a long time.hoping to get 15 years out of the mav also.

 

[Jonny44]

Use this stuff before every other (or third) oil change. Easier and cheaper to use than a blaster. I use it on my Kia and it not only keeps the carbon under control for the valves but also the oil ring, too. It's holding at 233k miles on the original engine, and still uses no oil.

 

[Oscarcat]

The joy of a new vehicle purchase should be the new truck smell and trouble free driving. Enjoy your new truck. Don't abuse it. I put idling for long periods in the category of abuse. Do what most have said, change oil more frequently than the manual says. As far as the extended warranty, they may consider the direct injection valve cleaning to be a maintenance item not covered so check the verbage. Meanwhile, get to know your trucklet and enjoy the fruits of your years of labor. The technology is light years ahead of the carburetored engines you and I grew up with. My two cents.

 

[CG - All the way]

All due respect but you sound like someone who has never actually cleaned valves on a DI engine to be honest. This is my third 2.0 Ecoboost and I cleaned the valves every 30k on the two previous which went 150k miles each and at 30k there was significant buildup. This was even back when Ford was having a lot of issues with carbon buildup on 2.0 valves and their official stance was that there was no authorized method of cleaning the valves, their "fix" was to replace the cylinder head. I was blasting them with walnut shells anyway and never had a problem.

So how did you determine that the buildup at 30k was "SIGNIFICANT"?????? Just curious???

 

[My42waffles]

All due respect but you sound like someone who has never actually cleaned valves on a DI engine to be honest. This is my third 2.0 Ecoboost and I cleaned the valves every 30k on the two previous which went 150k miles each and at 30k there was significant buildup. This was even back when Ford was having a lot of issues with carbon buildup on 2.0 valves and their official stance was that there was no authorized method of cleaning the valves, their "fix" was to replace the cylinder head. I was blasting them with walnut shells anyway and never had a problem.

you are blowing this out of proportion. My dad has an f150 with the 3.5 at 200k miles and not once have we bothered with cleaning the valves on it and it still runs like the day he got it.

 

[CajunMick]

All these "experts" claiming that there is a huge carbon buildup on the intake valves at 30k have obviously never taken a look at what the cam phaser does to reduce the effective compression under load. They either do not run top-tier fuel, run crummy oil getting past very worn rings, or are just plain full of crap. I see them posting pics and video teardowns of full-on race engines installed in the Focus RS with fuel/air tricks to keep the turbo maxed-out between gears and without the newer timing tricks, but not any pics of 2016-up vehicles that were driven normally.
The cam phasing advances the intake by as much as 50 degrees, causing huge amounts of fuel/air mix to push back into the intake and lowering the effective compression ratio when under load. Aside from preventing the lower grade fuel from knocking in a higher-compression engine, the backwash of PEA in top-tier fuels cleans the valve back surface pretty well. There are many examples of these engines going well over 400k miles in taxi duty, meeting emission standards and still running well.
I should note that this backwash does not work as well if you run the engine at redline all the time or run higher octane fuel, as the intake timing does not need to back off very much in those conditions. So, the so-called Italian tuneup does not do the job.
Just ignore these wannabe experts, use the lowest octane top-tier fuel and the recommended spec for the low volatility oil, and drive it normally. It will not carbon up.

Red Ryder, I’m at a lost…I ever heard of this before, what is top tier fuel?

All these "experts" claiming that there is a huge carbon buildup on the intake valves at 30k have obviously never taken a look at what the cam phaser does to reduce the effective compression under load. They either do not run top-tier fuel, run crummy oil getting past very worn rings, or are just plain full of crap. I see them posting pics and video teardowns of full-on race engines installed in the Focus RS with fuel/air tricks to keep the turbo maxed-out between gears and without the newer timing tricks, but not any pics of 2016-up vehicles that were driven normally.
The cam phasing advances the intake by as much as 50 degrees, causing huge amounts of fuel/air mix to push back into the intake and lowering the effective compression ratio when under load. Aside from preventing the lower grade fuel from knocking in a higher-compression engine, the backwash of PEA in top-tier fuels cleans the valve back surface pretty well. There are many examples of these engines going well over 400k miles in taxi duty, meeting emission standards and still running well.
I should note that this backwash does not work as well if you run the engine at redline all the time or run higher octane fuel, as the intake timing does not need to back off very much in those conditions. So, the so-called Italian tuneup does not do the job.
Just ignore these wannabe experts, use the lowest octane top-tier fuel and the recommended spec for the low volatility oil, and drive it normally. It will not carbon up.

RedRider, I’m at a lost, never heard this before…top tier fuel. What is meaning if top tier fuel? And how advantageous is it to use in this GDI situation?

Time will tell. When I bought my 23 ecoboost the dealer tried to sell me extended service plans,I shut him down right away.i said if this Ford is as good as my last couple dodges, it's not needed! My 14 year old ram has been trouble free,hoping to get another 5-6 years out of it.i keep my vehicles a long time.hoping to get 15 years out of the mav also.

I experienced the same.

My F250 diesel served me well. Only minor issues.

Wife‘s Escape with that 1.5 L engine doing well for 5 yrs, so far, in spite the block/ cyl sleeve casting flaw where coolant leaks into the cylinder, and coolant loss noted. I monitor coolant level each time hood raised. In fact I have a black Mark-a-lot mark on the coolant reservoir. And it does goes down. But so far not seeing any cylinder misfire warning. It could be small droplets getting burn off.

 

[RedRider]

Red Ryder, I’m at a lost…I ever heard of this before, what is top tier fuel?

Your owner's manual specifies top tier fuel, and to only use cheap fuel in a temporary emergency. See https://www.fordservicecontent.com/...N&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&buildtype=web for the fuel requirements. For reference, here is the top tier fuel association website listing the approved brands: https://www.toptiergas.com/fuel-stations/

 

[fossil]

I did a deep dive into direct injection valve carbon build up a few years back when the wife was looking at a 2.0L Escape. The mythos in very large part can be traced back to early VW DI Engines and over boosted/otherwise abused DI engines from several manufacturers.

VW pioneered direct injection around MY2000 (Ford 2010) and as with some other new tech there were problems. In their case the most troubling was intake valve coking that they eventually and quietly minimized by cylinder head cooling changes. There are sill class action cases pending.

 

[CajunMick]

RedRider, thanks for the top tier fuel info. Lucky, after checking for stations in my zip code area, there’s a ton of stations nearby. Now I gotta look for the top tier logo/sticker at the pumps.

Houston, being close to oil n gas producers, as well as those production facilities in the Gulf of Mexico, has lots of refineries, big ones. I spent most of my adult life working in the oil/gas biz, doing controls n instrumentation, and well traveled wherever there’s an oil field. Including international. And I can say that fuel buyers that sell to stations get their fuel from anywhere. Your Texaco may not be that, rather maybe SheLL!

 

[TheSEARCH]

I have a question. some manufacturers do BOTH direct injection and port injection Toyota does . So WHY do that if direct injection does not cause a problem some here believe? That sure isn't cheap to have another set of injectors. Sure sounds like only direct injection could be a problem. I have hybrid so no carbon worries for me. I have other worries, lol.

 

[CajunMick]

Back in late 60s I had a ”top cylinder” and valves lubricator by Marvel Mystery lube oil company. It was about the size of 1/2 gal can. It attaches to a vacuum line. One would fill with Marvel Mystery oil, start engine, and adjust the flow needle valve. On top was a sight bubble with a dropper orifice. One can watch how many drips of oil was being sucked into the engine, regulate its flow by adjusting the flow needle valve. And as one would be driving, would be assure the valves being lubricated sparingly.

imagine having one of these, filled with valves de carbon cleaner liquid, feeding, treating intake valves when driving.

many air filter companies produce a line lubricator that ads air tools lubricant to the air line to lubricate air tools. They too have flow regulator to control rate of lube flow to air stream. Some are drips, some are flogger types. Perhaps that’s an option to consider?

found this, for anyone’s info..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1159193719...Tqoe6IhZ4lT5bSLf9qAKi2+g==|tkp:Bk9SR5yUpPD7Yg

 

[NoVaJimmy]

I have a question. some manufacturers do BOTH direct injection and port injection Toyota does . So WHY do that if direct injection does not cause a problem some here believe? That sure isn't cheap to have another set of injectors. Sure sounds like only direct injection could be a problem. I have hybrid so no carbon worries for me. I have other worries, lol.

I posted actual videos of pretty severe carbon buildup, of course it's an issue considering how much money Ford spent replacing cylinder heads to address carbon buildup in the old Focus ST that had a lot of issues with it. I was part of that community. There's a reason Ford has moved to a dual system of Port and Direct Injection on other engines and why other manufacturers are already using a dual system. Can people get lucky with their driving habits and go 100k miles without running into an issue? Sure but there are plenty of customers who have had degraded idle/performance and fuel mileage as a result of carbon build up. Most people are just ignorant and probably couldn't pull the intake manifold off to check let alone clean their valves if they wanted to. If it wasn't an issue why did Ford change the 2024 Escape 2.0 to a direct and port injection system?

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